Curse

Cymmina · Jul 08, 2005, 11:20 AM // 11:20

I love the concept of being able to change your character around at any point in time, no worry about "ruining" your character like so many other games out there (*cough*Diablo II*cough*). You can swap skills in and out and tweak your attributes. However, due to the attribute refund system, all you can do is "tweak" your attributes, not change them freely like you can skills.

I understand why the refund system is in place. People would drop/raise attributes so they can do more damage with whichever skill they're going to use next. If I want to take my RP character out and play with IW for a while, I have to wait for my attribute refunds to come back before I can consider going back into the PvP arenas as a domination specialist.

As my ranger, I walked my roommate from Droknar's Forge to most of the way to Copperhammer Mines (got to the zone connecting to the mines before we got too much DP to continue). We killed everything along the way, and it took that long to get ~15 attribute refunds back. This is not my idea of fun. I had been using the character to walk my roommate through missions, which I needed to tweak my attributes for, and I didn't get refunds then, either, due to the 0 exp for low level stuff. You don't get refunds in PvP anymore with the recent update, causing RP characters to do more monster bashing and PvP characters to delete if they want to change their stats.

What I suggest is absolute freedom to change attributes as you please in town, no penalty, no "refunds" necessary, just like skills. Once outside of town, attributes should only be able to increase to accommodate people who've leveled.

arnansnow · Jul 08, 2005, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Well, after you ascend you can get all your points back by changing your secondary (unless they changed this).

DrSLUGFly · Jul 08, 2005, 12:24 PM // 12:24

perhaps they could make it like your skill sets and allow you to change around your attributes only in town. This would prevent shifting the points around per situation while out in the feild.

Or as another alternative, maybe they could just make the attribute refunds stronger or slightly easier to regain...

Indigo · Jul 08, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Actually, if you run out of refunds, just run around and get experience. You'll get them all back. Then rinse and repeat when you run out the next time.

The Warbringer · Jul 08, 2005, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Yeah... It really isn't that bad. In alot of games .:Hint: WoW:. You have to pay small fortunes to change your "attributes"

Accolon Pendragon · Jul 08, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

I have no problems with the current system for refunds. Whenever I need to restock points, I do a little Fissure and the points come back in a flash and since we have the Favor here in "America" reasonably often, that's no problem.

However, the Idea of changing points in town seems pretty good to me.

zemelett · Jul 08, 2005, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indigo

Actually, if you run out of refunds, just run around and get experience. You'll get them all back. Then rinse and repeat when you run out the next time.

Perhaps you missed what he said...

"I didn't get refunds then, either, due to the 0 exp for low level stuff. You don't get refunds in PvP anymore with the recent update, causing RP characters to do more monster bashing and PvP characters to delete if they want to change their stats."

See the problem is once you get to level 20 getting enough exp to get you 20 refund points can take quite a long time. Time that one would rather spend playing PvP or helping out a low lvl guildmate (which you dont get exp for cuz your lvl is so high). Also if you have made a PvP character since the new faction update you quickly realize that there is no experimenting with them at all cuz once you change your build 1 time, maybe 2 times at most, you can never get your refund points back.

Im not sure I agree totaly with doing away with the refund point system but perhaps they could implement sorta the same thing with exp points for faction...however many exp = 1 refund point the same faction points = 1 refund point.

toastgodsupreme · Jul 08, 2005, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Why not just make it like skills where you can only modify your attributes while in a city. Remove refund points alltogether.

smitty-gw · Jul 08, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Cymmina's concern is the accumulation of refund points to alter atributes in her PRIMARY profession.

Modifying secondary profession attributes is easy, just change the professions in the desert from the NPC. They replenish immediately so its basically free.

your primary attribute distribution is another story. You must spend refund points to alter and due to the state of the game now, she has a valid point.

arredondo · Jul 08, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

This is not a PvE issue at all, but a PvP one.

People have been saying this for a long time now. It's really the most logical yet unaddressed issue that I can think of in Guild Wars (other important things at least have been promised for future updates). Plenty of benefit to players, barely any (id any) negative impact on the game play structure. I made this thread the day of the last update:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=26932

Others exist on the same subject. Full 24-point refund in towns please.

Indigo · Jul 08, 2005, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by zemelett

Perhaps you missed what he said...

"I didn't get refunds then, either, due to the 0 exp for low level stuff. You don't get refunds in PvP anymore with the recent update, causing RP characters to do more monster bashing and PvP characters to delete if they want to change their stats."

See the problem is once you get to level 20 getting enough exp to get you 20 refund points can take quite a long time. Time that one would rather spend playing PvP or helping out a low lvl guildmate (which you dont get exp for cuz your lvl is so high). Also if you have made a PvP character since the new faction update you quickly realize that there is no experimenting with them at all cuz once you change your build 1 time, maybe 2 times at most, you can never get your refund points back.

Im not sure I agree totaly with doing away with the refund point system but perhaps they could implement sorta the same thing with exp points for faction...however many exp = 1 refund point the same faction points = 1 refund point.

Perhaps I did. But as I have 2 level 20's (not a great feat, but I do have them), I switch their attributes around regularly. I have *never* had a problem with attribute refunds, because when I run out, I go find something that gives me the number of attributes that I need. Usually a lot of somethings to be honest. But I find them. Additionally, when you "level" you get all of your refunds back. I guess I worry less about such things, and happen to agree with the limitation.

Tengoku No Yushosha · Jul 08, 2005, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Oh my...another person whos whining about something. *sigh* First, for pvp, you should use a PVP character, so its easier for your attribute points. Second, you should choose a specific path you wish to use (-In your case, Illusion or Domination-). If you can't choose either, then don't use a Mesmer. Third, your thread topic is WAY off since your discussing about YOUR problem. (-FYI don't say anything about my post-)

kaya · Jul 08, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

i'm having the same problem with my two PvE characters that i made for unlocking skills and PvP. Since i only PvP with them other than capping skills every now and then for my PvP characters, There is no way for me to get refund points back. Unless i wanted to do a little PvE again, which i didnt get this game to do. So, in other words i cant use them for anything now except capping skills, and when that's done or i've used all my skill points they are worthless to me. Now that wouldnt be so bad except for the time i put into them.

anyway yes they need to bring back exp in pvp, or somehow give refund points in pvp, or just get rid of the refund points all together.

wallin · Jul 08, 2005, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Perhaps buying experience or refund points with faction? Not that faction is in high supply, but it might be a good compromise.

Madjik · Jul 08, 2005, 07:15 PM // 19:15

I'm sorry but I do not agree with this idea. It really doesnt take that long at all to rebuild your attribute points (I change my attributes around all the time).

GranDeWun · Jul 08, 2005, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Even if getting all refund points back were trivially easy, what is the POINT of it? Why can't I switch attributes when I switch skills? (I agree with the town-only notion). What purpose is served by ANY restriction on refunds?

Accolon Pendragon · Jul 08, 2005, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Someone correct me if I am wrong but if you have a character in PvE only to Cap Skills and whatnot, you probably will not have to work around the attributes very much and if you have a PvP only character and you don't like the build, all you have to do is to delete it and create a new one, isn't that right?

The problem seems to do with people who have PvE characters and want to use them in PvP as well but you can always create a PvP only character and keep deleting and creating new ones until you find a build that you like.

It could be that I just fail to see the big problem here but if you like PvE and you need to rework your numbers, all you will have to do is playing for a while until you have the points back again and that should be fun for the more PvE oriented players since that's the reason they bought the game.

PvE is not really that hard and even if you screw up with a build (which is very hard to do), you can always make something work until you can change it again and let's face it, 24 Refund points is quite a bit.

kaya · Jul 08, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

ya, for some it doesnt matter cause they are killing for exp all the time anyway... so they are worthless. and for others they just get in the way.. forcing them do spend time doing something they dont really want to. and it can take some time too.

Siren · Jul 08, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by zemelett

Perhaps they could implement sorta the same thing with exp points for faction...however many exp = 1 refund point the same faction points = 1 refund point.

Boom. Problem solved. Hell, even every one or two kills in PvP nets you a refund point.

kaya · Jul 08, 2005, 08:49 PM // 20:49

yes! that sounds like the best answer to me too. :P now hopefully the can fix this soon